Stadium construction viewing stand mooted

A public viewing platform may be built to accommodate the interest in the construction of the Forsyth Barr Stadium in Dunedin.

Full article: watch the white elephant grow

Published in: on 20/08/2009 at 9:57 pm  Comments (105)  

105 CommentsLeave a comment

  1. When I read the headline of stand to built to watch the construction of the stadium or Farry’s Playground. I thought what a mindless idea and charge of ten dollars as well to watch. I thought I wonder were the money will go towards to the CST or the DCC and Farry and co playground.

  2. This article proves there is a lot of interest and support for the stadium. If so many people are going for a look then that sends a strong message.

    The headline you have give the article is misleading btw.

    • A few cars turn up, and suddenly it supposedly shows there is a lot of interest? Yet, in the stadium protest marches, and the town hall meet, there are a few thousand, less than the cars that have stopped, but it’s downplayed as being a ‘small group’. A typical see-through ploy of the pro lot. And watching it, hmmm, watching paint dry would be more exciting; it’s just a wasteland, goes to show what amuses some people.

      • Is that what Dunedin people do watch paint dry bring ya mates over sit donw with a beer in one hand and a sausage in the other and talk about paint drying, Dunedin just keeps getting weirder, maybe you should get out there and get a hobbie. Find a club and join it this aint a club this is a wast of time, i just read all the comments for a laugh see what you jokers really do to amuse ya selfs makes me laugh hahahaha

  3. Why wasn’t Richard Walls suggestion considered? Afterall he’s been around for the past 80 years or so.He’s even been mayor.
    Surely he knows better than the rest of the councillors on how to raise funds for the annual DCC Christmas booze up.

  4. People going for a look sends a strong message? Sure it does – people are curious.

    I’d venture to guess that instead they’ve wanted to have a look at the size of this huge money pit that has been foisted upon them.

    I fail to see how driving out for a look at a big hole equates to support.

    Unless, of course, you are following the MF line of reasoning…

  5. Talk about adding insult to injury and being out of touch. We pay for the stadium and then, if Richard Wall’s daft idea got traction, we pay again to “look at it” under construction. How cheap can you get.

  6. If i were you guys i wouldnet worry about doing what ever you waist your time and money on.
    The stadium is being built like it or not, all you do is waist your time on here. Dunedin is lost cause anyway this is its light of fresh air, Dunedin offers nothing but a decent uni and oh there is nothing else to atchally move here for. So all in all Dunedin has no future of any sorts it will end up like Oamaru, Dunedin is a place where if you have lived here for your whole life you will never leave this town is very small, so small that you dont get many people passing through it cause there is nothing south (worth visiting) only people from INvercargill will proberly go to Christchurch for the shopping as Dunedin as no decent shop


    you can save it by stoping all your actions

    • If you seriously think a huge oversized, overprized tin and glass shed is going to make a difference, dream on. Well, it will, in a detrimental way. More attractions, more things for a broad spectrum of locals to do, (not just the fringe interest of silly rugby) and certainly improved public transport would easily be the answer. And all at once, for much less cost, and actually pay for themselves. Aside that, Dunedin sells on scenery and heritage, not stadiums. It’s geograpically far south, and this is what it’s famous for.

      • Famous, you kidding, I think your dreaming, Did you not know that big sporting events bring money to the city, Pubs, Hotels, taxis, airports, Resturants, public transport, a word of mouth that people said i had the best time in dunedin at the frech rugby game i must return, did that slip your mind, did you know that game brought in huge money i forget how much it was but Dunedin hasnt seen that in a very long time. I think i will just let you keep dreaming I gess your a pure Dunedin person Born bread and will never live any where else. Odd

  7. Well, you’ve lost your appeal and the stadium is – happily – going ahead. I’d now hope that the large majority of stop the stadium members will unite behind the project and those who’ve displayed the vision energy and drive to see it through.

    • You must be joking, after being decieved that many times, rolled over so ignorantly, arrogantly by the think pig project, and of the latest, DCC caught out with yet more dirty laundry (the undisclosed $13 million more they omitted to tell the ratepayers), it’s more than clear who should have lost if justice had prevailed in the slightest. Get real. What wimpish behaviour that would be.

  8. I won’t be getting behind the stadium or the Farry and co playground, also I won’t be setting foot in the stadium regardless what the event is.

    • That’s alright Damien, we don’t need Canadians there anyway.

  9. “Watch the white elephant grow” should have read “Watch the poverty in Dunedin grow”
    Queenstown is fast becomming Otago’s main centre.
    We can only watch in despair at these Dunedin councillors pitiful attempt to put Dunedin back on the map again with a stadium that can only prop up the salaries of the has-been rugby players and has-been officials.

    • Queenstown becoming Otago’s main centre? What evidence do you have to back that statement up? How will a stadium prop up the salaries of rugby players?

      • Dunedin was once one of New Zealand’s major cities. It came fourth after Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch. Now it’s even lagging behind Hamilton.
        Surely it must have been a huge embarrassment to the DCC when Air NZ cut back flights to Dunedin and continued with its normal flights into Queenstown.
        Queenstown has got all of what major cities in the world have to offer.
        Fantastic scenery and a hoard of tourist attractions. Plus a decent mayor.
        Someone recently said to me “Dunedin is stuffed. It’s got nothing to offer anyone anymore and it’s even starting to look dirty”
        After spending in excess of $200 million on a brand spanking new stadium, let’s hope that Dunedin can clean up its act.

  10. 24 August 2009, mark it down as a great day in Dunedin’s history. The stadium has finally overcome the last of many hurdles (albeit an inconvenient rather than a challenging one). Congratulations to Malcolm Farry and CST, and to the DCC for reaching this point. Proud to be a southern ratepayer!

  11. I really do think that the only thing STS will be remembered for in a year was that utterly tasteless and disgraceful Nazi cartoon. That was when I realized that you offered no case, only smears.

    Prinicpally becuase I was so disgusted by the cartoon, I’ll now look forward to STS members passing the cup around to pay for court costs, because I see no reason why the citizens of Dunedin should foot the bill for your spurious and failed legal challenges.

    • Spurious?? What could be so spurious about the latest fair cop, the $13 million another “what they didn’t want you to know” sneakies. Another bit of busted, it’s glaring as a train headlight. What more is needed to prove the case than that?! They (DCC) and supporters seem to think they are above the law. Given the way the appeal went, looks like having friends in high places creates the result to make them bulletproof, not the moral case of right or wrong as it’s supposed to be. In any language, it’s a form of fraudulent behavior.
      The appeal was about the non transparency with all the processes, and this is a grand exemplary of a book full of deviousness on behalf of the DCC. Period.

  12. Boring, Adrian re the nazi cartoon. Already thrashed to death with feigned ‘horror’ by other pro stadium people. Judging by your own odious personal comments on the Paul le Comte/Elizabeth Kerr site I think you should be the last one to take a moral stance.
    Remember Garrick Tremain’s pretty punchy cartoons on the stadium. Have you heard about political satire?

  13. Why is Dunedin on the weather map, (who cares about Dunedin) i would much prefer to see Queenstown there, more people travel to Queenstown then Dunedin. Dunedin is in Poverty, like the comments above, Dunedin is in trouble what future does it have, it dosent have any. STS are low lifes, have nothign better to do but waist rate payers money on court cost that go ummmm oh they go no where point less wasting judges times, Its sad to see dunedin going down hill, but wht has it to offer! think about that what would an aucklander come to Dunedin for, a wellington person come here for. The simple answer is they dont come here, they really dont. The airort should be put out action, theres no reson to come here.

    in the end Dunedin is oing to be the new Oamaru

    • “in the end Dunedin is oing to be the new Oamaru”
      Yeh, it sure will be now, unless you are one of the boorish type that like to sit in stands yelling inane phrases at 30 airheads kicking a ball round a pitch a few times a year, in a glasshouse with a roof on! Whip de!

      So far people come here for scenery, and heritage buildings, and there’s much more we could do to add to that.

      • My goodness, so all pro-stadium people and rugby fans are now ‘boorish’ and ‘airheads’?
        Surely that must mean all STS supporters are ‘tree-hugging, grey-haired, whinging lefties’?
        If STS has as much support as it continually claims, it should have no trouble paying its legal bills. I would like to ask how many financial/registered members STS has? I fear it will be too embarassed to make this information publicly available however.

      • You really make me laugh im laughing at you not with you. You shouldent take everthing seriously you know, get out there have some fun.

  14. Max are you a racist! or other option an arrogent Dunedin person! which one are you

    • It’s called humour. I actually know Damien.

  15. After the stadium contracts were signed there was a call for ‘getting behind the stadium’. Response? Now the same call is being made.I can understand why that call is repeated because it would be so nice and comforting for the proponents of the stadium. How unrealistic. Crippling rate increases, increased council charges to pay for the stadium, decent low cost community initiatives shelved to pay for the stadium, cutbacks to core services to pay for the stadium- and it will go on for years.Do they really think we will get behind the stadium? I suspect those who have pushed to get their own way-despite the massive opposition to the stadium proposal- will rue the day they foisted this debacle on the people of Dunedin and Otago.In a very real sense they are now on trial before the court of the commons.

    • You question the amount of support for the stadium. I question support for STS.
      Will STS pay its legal bill? 65% of respondents to the ODT poll believe they should.
      How many financial members does STS have?
      Why would any pro-stadium people organise public meetings, bother writing letters, submissions etc. etc. when they have always perceived the stadium was going ahead?
      What is STS’ strategy for the future – will it attempt to ‘sabotage’ the future success of the stadium? Or will it finally admit defeat when incumbent councillors are returned to power next October?

      • I voted yes they should! up to 66% now, maybe this vite is going to go to council and the bill will be sent to your club

  16. IM going emil Jim hicky and get Dunedin taken of the weather map on the news and Queenstown put on ill let ya know how i get on. When ever Dunedin is on the news its either a murder, students out of control you you jokers and that weird looking leader you call mop head.

    All these stadium suported are about 40-50+ and have no job also proberly on the benifit, this cult has no fininacal support

  17. Queenstown is becoming a main center with all the building that is going on there.When I read Peter Chin’s comments in the ODT yesterday saying that it is time for all of Dunedin to get behide the stadium.I thought yeah right in twenty or thirty years time the stadium will be swiming pool with the rise of harbour.

    • Dunedin Is strugling Queenstonw has many events that is the diffrence, Queenstown residence welcome events that boost there local econmy Dunedin Residence drive all events out of the city and dont want anything to do with it. What dosent make sence.

      Like i say Dunedin is slowly becoming Oamaru weather you like it or not, got face the facts.

  18. Thanks Bev (and Pete) for all you have done on behalf of those who can’t speak, havn’t spoken, or are too ignorant to know what is best for them (that’s you ‘b(ack)side’).
    Ironic that St Malcolm suggests WE might have been crucified, when every day I pray for a more old testament solution to our pestilence.
    I would encourage all good citizens to ‘tell it like it is’ to the white-collar crims who have lead us down this path. Be careful to stop short of slander or libel, but they should not be able to walk the streets without being harangued.

  19. I tell it like it is but your ignorant STS people are to tight to think that this stadium will bring more people to Dunedin Why are you so ignorant. Was there a need for you to start calling people names like a little 5 year old would???

    maybe this club is full of 5 year old kids making a muss cause they dont get there own way.

    Oh and whats public transport going to to help boost Dunedins population (no one uses it) it shocks me how you people think.

    What else did you want upgraded thats not going help the diying business.

    You know those 15 bars that are for sale, with the boost of a new stadium creating new events they might not have to shut down.

    If you jokers carry on then they will.

  20. The 1972 Olympic stadium in Canada was going to cost $132 million dollars to build and have a capacity of more than 75,000, it was never finished in time, the roof was finally completed in the early eighties, removed and replaced when it failed and subsequently replaced for a third time and (here is the clincher) was at last paid up for earlier this year for more than $3 BILLION dollars.
    They say history never repeats, but it will and does if you ignore the past.

  21. Bite me!

    The money would be better spent putting a roof on ‘Caris-brook’ … but there is too much corruption in Dunedin.

    Just look at who got the contracts, how they got the contracts. Nothing was fairly tended. I was hoping to bid for construction, but my business was locked out of all council discussions.

    Why couldn’t I tender fairly for public works like all other contractors???

    The stadium will bankrupt the town.
    It is being built with high maintenance materials and designs. It is doomed. It isn’t being built properly, and even the site has enough failings that it should be condemned. The DCC site engineers are turning a blind eye to multiple failures in this project so it can be built and ready for the world cup.

    And they probably won’t even hold any matches here even if it is built.

    As for running a business in Dunedin – forget it. Its a town run by losers, for losers.

    • So, you wanted to tender for something you believe will bankrupt Dunedin? Well, at leat someone has a conscience!
      But then again, why do you care if it bankrupts the town, if we are all such ‘losers’ anyway?!

      • A very true statment, The town run by loosers for loosers.

        He proberly wanted it cause its a big money contract, who wouldent this town is dying (not long now) and it will be dead some time with in the next 10 years.

        And Matty s, you have agreed you are a looser

  22. Scary scenario, Gary. I didn’t know about this stadium in Canada. There seem to be so many examples of failed stadia worldwide alluded to for a long time now. (Malcolm has said we do things differently in the South).
    Is it conceivable that the stadium here is eventually mothballed? Especially if there are ongoing problems to prop it up – maybe literally- but definitely financially. Seems like a definite option for a future council to consider. The Highlanders will be left without a home base…but maybe they won’t exist for much longer anyhow as the NZRFU rearranges the franchises.
    The game of rugby seems to be dying, having lost the hearts and minds of many of its followers, and ironically all done by their own hand. Even pro stadium people are not impressed with the Carisbrook deal after the DCC paying way over the top for it to bail out the ORFU.
    Anyone for tiddlewinks?

    • Peter, rugby is far from dying, in fact quite the opposite – its global popularity is growing at a rapid rate.
      The 2011 World Cup is expected to have a cummulative global audience of 4.3 billion – about 4 billion more than the inuagural world cup in 87. It is beginning to gather momentum in the Asian market, and with Japan hosting the 2019 World Cup, the potential for growth is massive.
      Yes, crowd numbers at Super 14 and provincial games have dwindled in recent years, but the reasons for this are complex, effectively out of the NZRFU’s control, and nothing to do with a general decrease in popularity in the game.
      Currently in NZ, the structure of rugby is dictated by the broadcasters, with the majority of games be played in primetime tv slots. This obviously affects crowd numbers for games played at 7.30pm in New Zealand in the middle of winter.
      There are no easy solutions to this, but certainly a covered stadium will help immensely.
      Personally I would like to see broadcasters not show the games live on tv in the area which is hosting any given game unless it is a sell out, which would mean the only way people could be guaranteed to see the game live is if they went along.
      Less night rugby would be fantastic, can’t see it happening though, so perhaps adjusting the calendar somehow, so that Super 14 and international rugby fitted into more of a summer slot, while retaining NPC and club rugby during the traditional winter months would help.
      Whether you like it or not, rugby greatly contributes to huge amount of revenue turned over by associated businesses and industries. Heck, we can’t afford not to have a slice of the expected half a billion expected to be pumped into NZ’s economy during the RWC 2011 alone.
      I would also like to ask again, will STS be paying its legal bill in full and how many financial members does the group have?

  23. Matty

    What happens at ‘big bang’ events for rugby is not reflective of the state of the game overall. People will naturally watch these big gladiatorial matches in large numbers at home, mainly on the telly. Like ‘Dancing with the Stars’, beauty pageants, big number fashion events- the numbers are always there. That’s ideal for TV entertainment. (Not to mention trashy and cheap reality TV series that hook in the mega-viewer numbers) I would have thought what is happening out in the community, where the thrall of rugby in the nation’s psyche seems to be dying, would be a concern for some in the rugby world- but, granted, not necessarily others, out of that world. Low attendances at matches is surely not a good sign. Likewise the enthusiasm for rugby at junior level in schools. Where’s the future for rugby there? Never mind. Kids want to do other sports too and surely this is a good thing. There are other sports ‘goodies’ on offer. We are a consumer society after all. We should not be blubbering about the decline in support for rugby in NZ.
    Everything has its day. I’m sure fencing/jousting used to be more popular- especially in the Middle Ages- but are we worried now that they went into decline? I’m not. Are others?

  24. Despite those who would wish so, rugby in NZ is far from dying as Air NZ Cup crowds in places like Invercargill, Palmerston North, Napier and Kerikeri would testify. Dunedin’s another matter. None the less Richard Reid of the ORFU is quoted in this week’s DScene as stating 2009 Otago crowds are tracking ahead of 2007 and 2008 numbers. Surely that’s good news for all concerned.

  25. Peter
    From memory, Richard Reid didn’t give specific numbers but I’ll take his word for it. Certainly good news for all who are concerned if he is correct. The game last Thursday night( or was it the Thursday before) I understand attracted less than 2000. Is this right?Thursday admittedly seems a strange night, but still……..There are still underlining issues for rugby in retaining the affection of the public- not helped by the bailout of the ORFU nor the price paid for Carisbrook, the sale of which has soured rugby followers who love that ground. No one likes greed and selfishness- except those who gain to profit from such greed.We call them parasites.

  26. Oh my gosh! Shock horror!
    I have just trawled through all the messages on this page.
    No wonder ‘supporters’ of ‘Farry’s Playground’ rarely write letters of support for The Multipurpose Rugby Mausoleum to the ODT or Dscene. Judging by their venomous letters to this site, for the most part, their authors are barely able to cobble together letters that are cogent, literate and without many spelling errors. As such, they are unintentionally humorous but cannot expect to be taken seriously as informed comment.

    • Ah yes, the old ‘you support the stadium, so you must be a moron’ card. I apologise, Pat, I didn’t realise it was a spelling contest.

      On closer analysis, I think you’ll find, with one glaring exception, there has been some good, lively, and at times constructive debate through this forum.

      As someone who doesn’t have the time or desire to attend public meetings, write meticulous letters to editors etc etc, I appreciate the opportunity to have my two cents worth through this website. It is convenient, responsive, informative and has lead me to at least understand where STS in coming from, and although I still don’t agree with them, I thank them for allowing everyone to have a say here.

  27. I gess not much can be done to change you loosers attitudes to the stadium, your so against it it is now running your life, it is all you think about, you cant sleep at night. This is what happens when you live in this pathetic town for your whole life you end up being a loser with no hope.

    Im looking forward to leaving this town and trust me Im never ever ever coming back, if i need go to invercargill i go through twizel, twizel is a better place to live then Dunedin.

    Dunedin People are very veryvery Diffrent to the rest of the country, They have closed minds about everything and they look at people who are from out town like what are you doing here, you can just tell who are locals and who have traveld by what they wear how they walk, talk, act, and what they drive and how they drive.


  28. Some of the messages that I have read from Farry’s supporters on this site. I find them very mindless when I read the ODT each day I have not seen one letter from pro stadium supporter.

  29. People of Dunedin are receiving their latest rates bills and some of them are complaining because they are having to pay more than $66 a year for the stadium.
    These are the same people who allowed this project to go ahead by voting for a bunch of incompetent ‘no hopers’
    They didn’t want to become involved in trying to stop this stadium just in case their neighbours and friends??? started talking about them behind their backs, so instead allowed this bunch of ‘no hopers’ to play a game of real life monopoly with their hard earned money.
    To those who were too afraid to speak out and are living in houses that are worth $400,000 or more:
    Tough luck, you let them do it.

    • $66 a year = $1.30 a week = about six minutes work on the average wage, and although a pretty crude mathematical equation, this time figure should remain fairly constant in terms of rates contribution to stadium based on capital value relative to annual income.

      I think of this fact each time I skim through the anti-stadium letters during my paid morning tea break (takes about a minute each day) and savour the irony of the ‘hard earned money’ angle!

  30. Matty
    Many people are paying far more for rates than the average person on the average salary is. They are normally elderly people who have lived in their family homes for years and are considered to be assett rich and many times,cash poor. They are the ones who seem to be paying rates for a whole street full of state houses, where each house is getting around 8 times more use of water,sewage,rubbish collection etc etc than they are.
    The only fair system is for a citizens poll tax to be introduced which would make the burden of paying rates fair for everyone.

    • Hence the rates rebate scheme!!!!!!!!

      • That wasn’t you who wrote a letter to the ODT recently about the selfish baby-boomers was it Matty?
        The writer was described as a selfish, uncaring, money-grabbing individual.
        It sure sounded like you.

      • Haha, goodness me. No, Caz, it wasn’t I’m afraid.

        I was merely pointing out your argument is completely flawed, because anyone who is on a low income (e.g superannuitants) but paying what would be considered a high gross amount in rates, would be entitled to a rebate of up to $550. The more you pay in rates, the more rebate you get.

        I also find it ironic you are calling me an ‘uncaring, money-grabbing individual’ when you are promoting poll tax?!!?? I thought you were an advocate for ‘low income’ earners??!! Anyone remember Margaret Thatcher?

  31. PS
    Imagine how much peoples rates burdens would be reduced if the universities started paying their fair share of rates or poll taxes.

    • Increases in costs to Universities are passed directly to students, you idiot. Therefore another “low income” groups gets effected. That is the reason for the rates releif. God ! I hope none of you ever get elected, you won’t understand the big words.

      • I hope the idiots like me won’t have to keep paying for the chaos caused by the students in the university area of Dunedin anymore or towards any of the Otago University Lecturers and students court costs of legal aid

      • Calc there are around 55,000 ratepayers in Dunedin.
        The average that each ratepayer pays is probably around $1600 a year per house.
        But many houses only have one person who has to pay the whole $1600 on average.
        Some people have to pay considerably more than that.
        80% of Dunedin ratepayers did not want to pay towards the stadium.
        That left only 20% of ratepayers who were willing to pay for it.
        So most of Dunedin residents who want a new stadium are not ratepayers but ‘bludgers’ who live off ratepayers.
        If a poll tax or council tax was introduced, which meant extra costs for every citizen over the age of say 19 years old, towards this new stadium, it would not have gone ahead.

      • Caz, that may be correct. However, if a poll tax was introduced, it would be significantly more than $1600 a head. I would estimate more than $3000, or possibly more than $5000 a head if you also scrapped rates on non-residential properties in favour of a blanket poll tax.

        I would suggest many stadium opponents would be vehemently opposed to a poll tax, because it is essentially the poor subsidising the rich.

  32. I remember how ruthless Margaret Thatcher was Matty.
    I’m also continually reminded that we live in a user pays society now. So if you don’t want to pay a poll tax then I’d suggest that you and everyone else who wants this stadium should pay for it yourselves.
    I’m sure that you and the other few hundred pro- stadium Dunedin residents won’t mind paying $6600 a year each for it.
    Cheers mate.

  33. Personally paying a poll tax wouldn’t have a huge financial impact on me. But fundamentally I would be opposed to its introduction. You might be surprised, but I actually support fairly left-wing financial and tax policy.

    A poll tax would simply see 95% of the population pay more, so the top 5% of earners pay less. The rating system may not be perfect at present, but at least it aims to collect rates on an ‘ability to pay’ basis rather than aiming to have a hard-working truck driver on $30k paying the same in rates as a multi-millionaire.

    I would also be open to a user-pays system for the stadium IF the same was applied to all other Council services such as libraries, swimming pools etc.

    It does sounds fair in theory, however, in reality all these services would end up ceasing to exist. I have been to Moana Pool perhaps twice in the last decade, but am more than happy to keep paying for it through my rates as this is the only way to realistically retain this service in the city.

  34. Point taken Matty.
    But there are many people in Dunedin who are paying extras on top of their rates for flood schemes etc.
    Where I used to live,my ORC rates alone were $800 a year.
    Are you paying your fair share of ORC rates?
    Are your ORC rates anything like $800 a year?
    If not then why not?
    Because as you claim rates should be collected on ‘an ability to pay basis’ and I believe that they shouldn’t be collected based on where people live.
    Like they are now.
    So that kind of throws your theory out of the window because a truck driver on a salary of $30k can still have to pay $800 a year for ORC rates and that’s before his DCC rates are included.
    God only knows what’s going to happen when the DCC and ORC have to do something major to prevent the South of Dunedin and Waikouaiti from flooding because of beach erosion.
    Are you going to say that you shouldn’t have to pay towards those costs, and they’re going to be horrendous,because you don’t live in those areas but still say that that everyone should have to pay for a stadium that 80% of Dunedin people will never set foot in?

    • Hi Caz, that is a fair point and that is an anomaly that should be rectified. Indeed, the entire city, regardless of location of residence, benefits from erosion protection.

  35. Oh Matty!
    There are people I know who are ratepayers with an income of less than $300 per week. Some of the worst off are those who become unemployed after the age of 55 but are under the age of eligibility for superannuation. In spite of the fact that age discrimination is illegal, it is widely practiced by employers. No matter how qualified you are, it is extremely difficult to find employment especially after the age of 60. How old are you Matty? How much do you earn per week? Try living on an unemployment benefit and pay rates plus a mortgage and see how you get on!
    Quite frankly I find your assertion that you support left wing financial and tax policies, totally unconvincing. You don’t talk like any socialist I have ever come across. You must have a job, for you spend “a minute” during your coffee break reading letters on this site. Significantly most of the letters on this site are yours! Do you write them in your coffee break too, or do you spend some of your employer’s time to do this?
    I do not need to live under Margaret Thatcher. I lived under Roger Douglas a pseudo-socialist in the Lange government, now an ACT ‘Milton Friedman-ite’. You and he should get along like a house on fire!

  36. Hello Pat. Firstly I must clarify my earlier point. A poll tax WOULD have a financial impact on me, but personally I don’t find rates to be a ‘burden’ in the same way some others do. I belive rates pay for essential and some non-essential services at good value for money and therefore, at a push, paying more wouldn’t worry me too much.
    I sympathise with people in the position of finding themselves unemployed before receiving superannuation. Heck, to answer your question, I am in my late 20’s earning $50k, raising children, paying off a mortgage and student loan etc, so I’m by no means ‘creaming it’ myself.
    Do you agree with a poll tax, Pat? Do you think that would make life easier for those people you know on $300 a week?
    What would make a substantial difference for these people is the reigning in of power prices, removing GST on essential goods, and more meaningful employment opportunities. In the grand scheme of things, scrapping a stadium to save these people $1 to $2 a week is a waste of time in my opinion.
    As I said before the rating system isn’t perfect at present, but at least TRIES to collect rates on an ‘ability to pay’ basis. If you have a better system, I’d love to hear it. Cheers.

  37. No Matty, I do not believe in Poll Tax, and like you, I would like to see GST abolished because low income earners pay the largest proportion of their salaries. Margaret Thatcher (who was a personal friend of Pinochet), Ronald Reagan (Reaganomics, George Bush, Roger Douglas (Rogernomics) and the ‘ACT’ Party NZ, are devotees of the ‘Chicago School of Economics’, whose ‘Market Forces ideology’ is summed up in the theories of Milton Freidman (now deceased). Both Rodney Hyde and Don Brash were friends and supporters of this far right theorist. They invited him to NZ to give lectures! If you are interested, there is an excellent book that has been written by Naomi Klein (a Canadian), entitled ‘The Shock Doctrine’, published 2008. There are several copies in the public library. It exposes the ways and means used by these theorists and the devastating results in a number of countries. Douglas, a Thatcherite was responsible for GST and the privatisation of Telecom, and NZ Rail etc. etc). You may be too young to remember the 1980s and 1990s, but I am 63 and I DO remember. It was a period of social dislocation, causing much of the poverty that exists in NZ today.
    Insofar as the Rugby Stadium is concerned, when it was first proposed, the DCC PROMISED that funds would come from private sources, that Ratepayer money would not be required to pay for it. They deliberately LIED.

    • Hi Pat, I agree wholeheartedly with your comments regarding Douglas, Thatcher et al. You are right, I was only in nappies in the 1980s, but am all too aware of the consequences of these far-right theories, hence why I previously stated I believe in fairly left-wing taxation policies.
      Re the stadium, in a perfect world, funding for the stadium would come entirely from the private sector/user pays, as would funding for libraries, swimming pools and other such ‘non-essential’ services. Unfortunately, this is never going to happen in reality, and therefore, personally I am happy to contribute through rates. I understand where people such as yourself are coming from, and concur that the process by which public organisations such as DCC conduct their affairs sometimes leaves a lot to be desired. However, it is my personal belief that the stadium is in the best interests of Dunedin and make no apologies for expressing this viewpoint. It is my intention to have some constructive debate through this channel, rather than take ‘pot-shots’ at STS members as you previously stated, and I do apologise if I have given the wrong impression in this sense.

  38. Matty

    I have no problem with you thinking the stadium is a good idea. I think the stadium is a con. However, your opinion weighs a lot more than mine as there was no chance for my opinion to count for anything, yet I am being forced to pay for something that I believe will squander Dunedins future, and put us in debt for decades. The lack of democratic process is deeply disturbing. A referendum would have given pro-stadium folk a justified stance to build the stadium, they chose not to have one. Why?
    Only logical reason is they knew there was a good chance the majority are no longer for it.

  39. Why is $66 per year an issue when your power bill is so much more and the power companys are creming there consumers!

    Whats the real issue here. Power or a Stadium what would you prefer to be cheaper?

    Pros of cheaper power, ya’ll have more money to spend.
    pros of anew stadium more ppl will visit Dunedin more events will happen.

    What u ppl think is better cheaper power or rates to stay the same as before they went up!

  40. Matty

    Since you think the stadium is a great idea, why don’t you suggest to pro-stadium councillors that a public meeting show casing the stadium and its progress would be appreciated by the majority of the Dunedin public?
    I can imagine you, along with many others, are excited by its progress and would appreciate an update? I think that’s a brilliant idea, don’t you??

  41. Talk is cheap, Matty, actions, however, speak very loudly.

    • Hello Amanda, you do realise the above comment was not posted by me?

      If not, I see no need for a ‘public meeting’ to provide an update and pardon my ignorance, but I’m not quite sure what you are getting at?

      Everyone will have the chance to take ‘action’ at next year’s local body elections. Personally I think the results may end up being rather surprising to some – as I have previously stated, no matter one’s stance on the Stadium, the general population tends to vote in local body elections for the candidates’ names they know and who ‘have been there before’, rather than the stance they take on any given issue. Happy to stand corrected though.


      • I Pro stadium people are excited by the stadium would like to hear about its progress and the plans for its use. There was no information on the stadiuam at the last Dunedin expo, nothing to share with the poeple the plans. Rather than just hear about it through the media why not speak directly to the peaple?? This is perfectly reasonable. The fact that the prostadium councillors have not done this is very strange indeed.Why ever would they not be biting at the bit to share all they can with the deleriously excited public???

  42. Hi ‘bside’
    Are you for real? If you are, you really do need lessons in literacy!
    I am a person, strongly opposed to the construction of the Stadium because I believe that it has been cogently demonstated:
    1. Our city cannot afford it.
    2. A large majority of citizens do not want it.
    3. As it will not pay for itself, it will be an on-going burden for generations to come.
    4. It is not truly ‘Multi-Purpose’ but its purpose is primarily for Rugby, a game already millions in debt and decreasing in popularity.
    Therefore supporters of the stadium either have their noses in the trough, or are blind, blinkered, credulous, simple or dimwitted….Which are you? Your letters are the burblings of someone as thick as two planks. Surely the education system cannot have been so negligent! Or are you really a Fifth Columnist who is nefariously posing as a stadium supporter, intending to represent them as a group of completely bonkers neanderthals?
    Yo hav enny uther ideyas man?

  43. SO you are name calling now, like a 5 year old. Did i call you a name did or did i offend you that you go into name calling, will that solve your problems and or make you fell better. It dosent matter what you call me you wont offend me im oepn minded people say and do what they fell

    I got heaps of ideas what you wana here Pat

    The Ranfurly shield will be staying in Canterbury Otago has noooooo chance.

    What ideas you wana here Pat

    Name a Topic

  44. Hi bside,
    I have to concede that ‘You are for real’ and not a person opposed to the stadium posing as someone who is for it. You asked me for ideas that I “wanna here”.
    Would you please comment on these salient facts:
    The chairman of The Rugby Union Jock Hobbs admits that The RU will have to write a substantial cheque after hosting the Rugby World Cup. Greg Ford (reporter, Sunday Star Times), reported that the cost of hosting the tournament had blown out from $30.000.000 to $40.000.000. The NZRU has agreed to pay one third of any loss. Tell me bside, who do YOU think should pay for the rest of the loss? Remember that the projected loss amount is “uncapped” and the RU has admitted that the recession is hitting the game hard. Therefore, the loss could be greater than the $40m forcasted. Presently, the RU has only $55m in the kitty.
    If ticket sales are poor in Dunedin, do you think the ratepayers here should ‘pick up the tab? Will the RU rent the Stadium or will it be funded by ratepayer largesse; just another DCC ‘charity’ to prop up rugby?
    Mr. Murray McCully has become so concerned about the Rugby Cup’s financial burden on the taxpayer nationally,that he has placed two financial experts on the RU board. The issue is politically charged because the goverment will go to the polls shortly after the cup. In the ‘not distant future’, our Council will go to the ballot box (can’t wait!)
    I would like you to tell me how the Rugby Cup Tournament can be funded nationally, and The Dunedin Stadium can be paid for locally, in the teeth of a recession (which is predicted to get worse), by a population which is now finding it increasingly difficult scratch together the means to live. Interestingly, Bill English has mooted that an increase in GST is possible to help keep the country solvent. Yay! dearer groceries, power, petrol, etc. The DCC has put up rates, increased the cost of parking, building consents etc. I am awaiting water metering with anticipation!
    What are your thoughts regarding all the above bside?

    • HI again Pat

      No comment on the name calling I see, was it nessecery to start calling names. Now you think you are putting me on the spot.

      Im unsure of where the 40 – 50 million is coming from is this nationaly, i cant comment on this yet as i don’t know the facts, sounds like the whole country, if so who shuld pay, the goverment the amount of money the country will bring in the airports will recieve the people traveling food, petrol, hotels, motels, everything that a tousit will do the things they buy will produce a large some of money so there is the answer for that. This is nothing to be concerned about the goverment will front up our national game will always survive.

      It kinda looks like your heart and soul is in this Pat and looks like you are getting a little cheeky, unsure why this maybe nessecery but there is no need to do so and with the name calling why would you do that Pat why why why.

      Do i Offend you in wanting the stadium to be build, do i offend you canuse you cant offend me what your deal.

      Whats your answer from the above Pat please explain we are all adults here.

  45. Hi Pat, you are right, the RWC 2011 tournament itself will inevitable result in an approx. $40m loss for the NZRFU. However, I believe it will be a wise investment for the government to underwrite at least part of this loss becuase, afterall, spending by people visiting NZ for the tournament on food, accommodation, tourism, etc etc. is expected to be at least half a billion dollars! Tax revenue from the tournament is expected to be about $117 million, about two-thirds of this from GST, so it is appropriate that the government uses some of this to cover the NZRU’s losses for bringing this revenue to NZ in the first place.

    It is also hard to measure the impact the RWC will have in terms of promoting NZ as a tourist destination. With a cummulative global viewing audience of 4.3 billion, one would think there would be some massive spin-offs in this respect.

    Personally, I would support a rise in GST on non essential goods, and a decrease in GST on those essential goods you describe such as food, fuel etc.

    Amanda, I don’t think there is any need for a public meeting. Stadium supporters just want to see the thing built and already know what it is going to be used for etc. But if you’re that keen, I suggest contacting the Council to see if it’s possible.


    • The stadium is the biggest single spend in Dunedin’s history. It is officially a big deal. The ramifications of it being built will be felt, possibly, for a long time. It would make perfect sense for the pro-stadium councillors to wish to communicate with the Dunedin public their excitement. To celebrate with them the bright new future that they believe the stadium ensures. They are not doing this because they do not believe the majority are on side with the stadium being foisted on them. The fact the public are not clamouring for a public celebration of the stadium I think proves that a lot do not think the stadium is a wise choice.

  46. Hi Matty,
    The above letter I wrote was directed at ‘bside’. As one of your more erudite supporters of the stadium, I am expecting a response from him as requested (I presume it’s a “he”), not you Matty.
    I normally don’t watch rugby, but I must say that the tri-nations game between The All-Blacks and the Springboks was quite exciting. The Springboks were great weren’t they bside? Like me, I imagine that most of the spectators during the World Cup will watch games from their living rooms not in any stadium. As for estimated, uncapped losses expected for hosting the World Cup, the rugby union had hoped to use any money left in the kitty, (after they had picked up a third of any loss) to buffer against the recession. It is to be hoped that your touching faith in the profits to come, expected by stadium supporters will be realised, and are not just the hyped-up predictions of the Stadium Trust. However Matty, you must understand that we are talking about a RUGBY cup here, not the FA Cup (FIFA). The latter being the most popular game of football in most countries, and slowly gaining in popularity here. Did you know that most primary school children in NZ now choose to play soccer, not rugby! Interestingly, soccer I understand, cannot be played in your Dunedin “Multi-Purpose” Stadium!

    Aside from all that:

    Matty, what are the “non-essential goods” you are talking about in relation to your proposed “increase in GST”. Could you write a list for me please? I would really like to know WHAT you consider to be “non-essential”. I, and no doubt many other contributors, would really appreciate an answer to this query. A small, but fairly specific list will do! Say at least 20 items. For example: Building material, or local body rates, or doctors visits/prescription drugs …Would you put any of those items on your list of “non-essentials” perhaps? I AM being serious Matty…A list please!

    • Hello Pat,

      As far as I see it, non-essential is bascially anything except for food, electricity, medical care etc. Lowering the GST on these goods/services to 10% and increasing everything else to 15% would be fine in my opinion. Pretty straightforward really.

      You are right, primary school children are choosing to play football and that’s great. Participation in any sport should be encouraged. You are incorrect about the Stadium not being able to host football – I beleive the Wellington Phoenix are looking at playing some pre-season games here, and who knows, a few years down the line, it would be great to have an A-League team based here.

      And of course more people are going to watch the RWC on their televisions – you can’t fit 4 billion people into a stadium!! It is not as popular as football, but is still a popular sport and growing at a rapid rate globally.

      Amanda, information on the stadium’s progress is readily available. The celebrating will begin once construction is complete.


      • HI Pat see above i have replyed!

        I see the street sweepers out today cleaning the dirty dunedin streets and what a diffrence looks so much better i have been in dunedin for over a year now, and some streets have never been touched and boy what a diffrence a sweep can do!

        In lower hutt the streets are done weekley here they are done ever 3 or so months and a huge time gap!

        Just Build it

  47. Hi, ‘bside’
    I Have decided that you really are a ‘fake’, but a very amusing one. Cut the crap ‘bside’. I have taught English here and overseas. Your spelling and grammar on this site is generally far worse than that of High School Chinese students, learning English as a foreign language. Yet at times, your grammar and syntax (sintax to you) show a certain degree of competency, which indicates that you are not as ‘thick’ as you pretend to be! Are you ‘taking the piss’ from both sides of the argument?

    Matty, do you know that you figure prominently in the bible as a self-righteous pharisee? I’m too polite to call you a ‘whited sepulchre’. You blend well with pro-stadium crowd, who are erecting a modern day ‘Tower of Babel’ a monument to the Farry-Chin Dynasty, and to their own vanity and stupidity.

    • ‘Sigh’. Your rapid descent into personal attacks are an unfortunate yet predictable representation of some anti-stadium proponents. Perhaps it’s an indication that, in fact, there is little, if any, substantive argument or evidence that the stadium will not be a huge success.

      Hopefully, for your sake, all those against the stadium (who are clearly far superior in numbers and intelligence to any stadium proponent) turn out in droves to next year’s local body elections.

      $66, however, says the majority of pro-stadium councillors will be returned to power if they stand again.


    • Fake ok cool im a fake.

      My Grammer and spelling is very bad i know dont need tell me that. But am i worried nope, will i ever be, nope, will it effect be doing what i do, nope never, will it effect be being anything i want to nope, do i have a low paying job nope never will.

      So grammer spelling dosent matter. Well thats all cleard up. I like to amuse ppl and glad that you have been amused. IM not taking the piss, im all for the stadium being build.

      Any other ideas you wana through over here ill sort it out

      Maybe i should run for mayor, get that stadium build

      Or for presednet what u think

  48. As a new contributor to your site, I found most of your writers to be quite amusing, others, particularly stupid! Logically, there is no real reason to spend so much money on the new stadium. Having read some of the pro-stadium comments, I have seriously considered selling some old gold bricks at a discounted price to those gullible people. Needless to say, because of demand I am out of stock just at the moment. You can avail yourselves of this ‘golden’ opportunity by sending me a cheque or cash for $1000 as a deposit to secure your investment until stock arrives. If I am unable to supply you with your gold, I shall return the unused portion of your money and a Christmas card. In the ten years of our business operation, we have received no complaints at our head office on Mars. Occasionally, any delay in response could be attributed to a postage delay. We have set up a temporary office at the mayoral office at the DCC, The Octagon, Dunedin, New Zealand, Earth. Mr. Chin, our agent, has extensive experience in space travel, and has been out of this world for several years.
    Yours faithfully,
    Abraham Shyster

  49. Yep ‘bside’,
    I do think you should stand for mayor. I really do think you would stand a good chance of doing at least as good, and likely a far better job than Chin!
    Indeed, I think you are cleverer than our present mayor and most of the DCC councillors. Good luck!

    • I’m not sure that judging the Mayor, as “not being as clever” as someone who contributes to this dreary site is wise. Please do run for Mayor, whoever you are, but do run under your nom-de-plume, so I can ensure not to vote for you. Democracy has spoken to you people at the last election, did you not understand the result ? The problem is, yoou all scream about democracy, but when the only tool we have to measure peoples views, doesn’t go your way, it appears to be a conspiracy, or soemone elses fault. Maybe the electorate just doesn’t agree with you. Has that crossed your minds? So, if any of you do get elected, for Gods sake do something positive for the City, instead on the wrapping this negative cloak around everything. I won’t hold my breath on that one, but remember people do like to vote for positive smiling hopeful candidates, not the bitter and resentful.

  50. Hi Matty,
    Have you bought any ‘old gold bricks’ recently from Abraham Shyster. He wrote very recently with an offer that stadium supporters should find difficult to resist.
    Good luck with your favourite investment Matty. I have a feeling you will need it!

  51. HI again im back

    dont regret it!

    I was biking down the harbour the other day of the snow this week, and couldent help notice that there is a new building be built where the stadium is and then i clicked oh that what it is! its going look impressive when finished but one thought that came to mind is this. Its going to look out of place, its going to be bigger then all the bigger buildings in the Town, but it will be a sight to see when its finished

    any way have a good evning here from yas latter

    In regards to the Students. Victoria uni ban there students from events, they dont point fingers at other unis like otago does. Otago uni needs to act instead of pointing fingers. Look at the figures who got arrest 90% otago uni students what does that say. The culture of Otago uni is burn couches, riot, thats why some people come here. Why Dosent Otago uni step up to the plate and take some action instead of blaiming other uni’s or even the DCC how did the DCC creat a riot. Its Otago uni students who are the problem not the DCC. Was the mayor down there jumping over the couchs, drinking. Some how i dont think so.

  52. Hi bside,
    The student ‘Undie500 riot was, according to some columnists, fuelled by the All-Blacks loss in a test match on that same Saturday afternoon. This indicates that too much watching of of Rugby, may be bad for your mental health bside! Judging by some unbalanced, irrational and fanatical letters of Rugby enthusiasts to this site, a little therapy is required. Some of you may already have undergone a ‘labotomy of the frontal lobe’. ‘bside’, your own incoherent letters indicate to me that you may yourself have been the recipient of this radical treatment. Please tell me if I am mistaken.

    • Patsy

      YOu are very mistaken. and you are very judgemental yourself. Where are the facts that points the riot was from the loss of the all blacks, if you believe that is the case and you are defending the uni then that is your choise but deep in your mind you know the truth, you know that the Dunedin Students are like this cause it is there culture, its what they do. The colummnists are defending there city of cource, but the truth hasnt come out and Otago Uni needs to start dealing with the problems with in the otago uni as the issue is the Otago Uni look at the stats of who got arrested i think 90% of arrests where Otago uni. If they where upset at the All blacks well i find that hard to believe. But if you Patsy want to believe that you can do that.

      I havent been the recipient of radical trearment i just dont like Dunedin its got a very bad reputation and the streets are filthy. I was born here, but i have lived all over the country and i cant wait to leave this township. I hope that answers your Questions Patsy.

  53. B’side,
    I am only quoting the newspapers b’side. You say: “Deep in your mind you know the truth”. You mean, (I suppose), the truth as you see it! Aren’t you being a little presumptuous b’side? I would never accuse you of of ‘knowing the truth’. In fact, your letters indicate to me that you know nothing of the truth at all! That is why your letters are such drivel.

  54. Hi Patsy
    So u quoting the newspaper do you really believe evething that is in there?

    YOu are very defensive arnt you why is this? I am stating my opinion thats all it is and here you are getting all deffensive cause i said something that you dont like!

    Well if thats who you are no one can change that and fair enough you be like that i have no problem with what you say it is an oipinion there can be no argument with an opinion!

    So please dont get all defensive on this township, its only a town and like last night on the news the Dunedin weather camera was gone. But that dosent matter id prefer to see Queenstowns weather then Dunedins.


  55. Havn’t you heard of satire b’side?
    You really should not take my letters so literally! I have been ‘taking the piss’ darling!

  56. ok patsy i always knew that unless you are a true hard core dunedin person!

    they are odd the bread of dunedin people very odd bread!

  57. Yes, a little stale indeed.

  58. People who have been ‘bread’ in Dunedin are not stale; they are a little on the stodgy side.

  59. Stale no way they are over stale they are in to the moldy stage, fungus even!

    People of Dunedin need to get out more, explor whats over those dem hills! eg follow the sign that says Christchurch!

    Stadiums going up well! no problems so far. Whats STS doing to atchally stop it now, they have given up hope havent they!

    Think they need to build a bridge and get over it!

  60. I have been amused and somewhat astonished at the erudite discussions on the quality of ‘bread’ in Dunedin. Continuing in the same vein, I would describe most of the exchanges as ill-informed and ‘half-baked’. Indeed, some of the contributers would certainly fall into the category of being ‘crusty’, and others appear to have no sense of humour, and fall into the category of ‘stodgy’. Some of the female contributers may be excused their irrationality, because of the liklihood of a ‘bun in the oven’. At this point, I will leave a pregnant pause to enable readers to swallow the unpalatable fodder of Dunedin ‘bread’. In short, get a life! Remember, if we can swallow a multi-million stadium, we can digest anything. The only differece it will make is the mound of excrement left behind!
    Abraham Shyster.
    PS. I still have some gold bars on special.

  61. I’ve just thought of something to solve the STS’s legal bill worries. The 80% of people in Dunedin that supposedly are against the stadium could each give you $1. That way you would have conservatively at least $80,000 to play with. I mean its only $1, who would miss it? and it would give you quite a bit left over to launch yet another pointless and legally unsound court action.

  62. I’m sure all the ratepayers won’t mind paying $1 each once the money that was screwed out of them is returned to them from John Farry’s piss bucket.

    • So ask them for it,if you’re so confident of the 80% figure being correct ? Stand for Council on this premise, I dare you to, with the backing of 80,000 people how can you not win, particularly being the archetypical “one-issue candiate”?. And Please don’t tell us how much support you have, show us! Although having tried and failed a number of times to sway the public at the polling booths, one would wonder why you would bother?

    • What the hell has “John” Farry got to do with the stadium ? He’s a local business man, nothing more. Just because he owned some land, you paranoid delusionists smell a conspiracy. Do you really despise the whole family now? I’d wager the Farry family over many generations, have given more to this City than you ever have in your little lifetime Caz, and warrant much more respect than the personal vitriol you spout on this site. It is an immature unprofessional way to conduct ones self, and it does you no credit at all. The odd bit of jealousy creeping in there is it ? Please refer to my previous comment on you lot wrapping yourselves in a cloak of negativity. You’ll never get elected if you don’t park all this nonsense and start debating the issues, not the people involved.

  63. The Farry family are all philanthropists and their personal interests, need for self agrandisement and their business interests have nothing to do with supporting the stadium….Yeah right! The fact that they are part of “the establishment” in Dunedin apparently gives them feudal rights over us poor “peasants”
    Do you believe in fairies too Calc?

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